Curse

Cash · May 27, 2010, 09:00 PM // 21:00

cant believe i actually read this whole thread......

well, let me start off by saying that none of my accounts are banned. yay! those who dont want to read a story and listen to my opinions regarding third party mods/bots, just stop reading now.

as a returning player (quit 3.5 years ago for WoW, then quit WoW in november of last year and came back to GW shortly after), i enjoy this game as a casual. i want something i can log into from time to time and have fun playing, but not something that "sucks you in" and consumes all your time/life. that's exactly what i feel the game is for me right now.

i fully applaud anet's ban on botters. maybe i'll be able to get back into PvP now- i know im not the greatest at it, but the bots just made me not want to even bother with that aspect of the game. i also congratulate anet's ban of PvE farming bots. that sort of thing has been destroying the economy since before i originally left. i'm not saying this will FIX the economy, or that botters will not be back in some form or fashion, but this is definately a positive step.

however.... lets move into the "grey area." as many have already stated, i would LOVE to hear an official "YES or NO" for certain mods. and please dont quote the EULA or any other post in this thread- ive already read it. keep in mind that what you are about to read is my OPINION on each of these. i feel that anet should use (and from my personal experience, IS using) is a common sense approach. AKA "who does this effect?" "what benefits are gained?" "will anyone else's game play be negatively affected?" ...yada yada

1) textmod- a 3rd party program that technically DOES alter the GW client. when i left GW, i had spent a LOT of time on tyrian carto, and i was only 98.6%. using textmod, i went back and finished in just a few hours. also using textmod, cantha and elonia were cake compared to how much time i had invested in tyria. this program should NEVER be considered a bannable offense. in no way does it negatively affect another player. all it saves you is TIME. yes, as many of you will say ...."well i was able to do it without the mod, and so should you!" thats garbage- some people have a higher quality monitor than others, some people have better eyesight that others, and some of those spots are just downright LUCK. i mean, you have to twist, turn, spin, and do the hokey pokey just to clear it out. textmod makes carto EASIER, but does not give you any advantage over another player.

2) multilaunch/GWx2 - 3rd party program that lets you run 2 clients at once. seriously, this mod is for GW what the invention of the wheel was for mankind. not having a mailbox system or any way to trade items or gold between accounts was a HUUUUUGE bummer. i actually bought a cheapo comp JUST for GW years ago so i could trade between accts. this mod should also NOT be bannable. it certainly doesnt hurt anyone else's gameplay, and it saves you tons of time and frustration. i consistently use GWx2 to trade my travelers gifts to my "main" acct and trade items to my storage mule perma pre from my other perma pre. i bet im not the only one who does this.

also, being able to actually PLAY an account while death leveling charr or spending the whole festival event on the nine rings is a bonus. in no way can i fathom how this mod can ever be considered bad.

3) drunkardbot - many of you will disagree with my opinion, but at least hear it out. while those who use drunkardbot cannot argue that it is indeed a BOT, ironically, it is the only 3rd party program i have mentioned that does not change the GW client at all. it simply clicks your mouse at a variable spot a variable number of times at a variable time interval. does it give you an advantage? yes- it saves you TIME. does it hurt other players? absolutely not! i'll freely admit to using it. i manually clicked the first 1000+ minutes before i quit GW years ago, and honestly, its not fun. and its not fun to zone-drink for the title either. oh i also drink while "shopping" in spamadan, but its nice to be able to afk a decent chunk of the title, esp for those of us who dont log on every day. if you consider this bot logically, you can say that it POSITIVELY affects GW's economy. those who use "db" are more likely to buy booze from other players. also, due to the convenience, im sure many players have gone for ale hound on alts, putting even more money into legit trading. also, id like to point out that using "db" is pretty much the same as going afk with a vamp weapon while you pay someone to vanquish areas for you.... you're getting credit towards a title while you do nothing, correct? do we not have a service for this type of vanquishing right here on guru? how can one be ok and the other not?

sooooo.... hopefully i wont get banned for admitting to using these mods, but im sure ive used each of them in the last month or so, and as i stated earlier, none of my accounts are banned. to those who swear that the ONLY way they were banned for use of one of these mods, i have to say that either you're lying, or you should definitely contact support. assuming these mods are safe to use, i would like to say kudos to anet for using common sense. a huge THANK YOU for eliminating those who ruin the game for others, while showing sensibility toward those who simply wish to save time and frustration.

in closing, i would still love to hear an OFFICIAL "yes or no" here. a "yes" would rock my socks and take a load off my mind, and obviously, if the answer is "no", i would happily discontinue using those programs. but until then, i guess i'll just take my chances and stand by what i feel is common sense.

Emunator · May 27, 2010, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Cash i actually agree with you on those points.
But i have been banned and contacted support about it, they escalated the ticket and all i can do now is wait.

Kumu Honua · May 27, 2010, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cash

cant believe i actually read this whole thread......

well, let me start off by saying that none of my accounts are banned. yay! those who dont want to read a story and listen to my opinions regarding third party mods/bots, just stop reading now.

as a returning player (quit 3.5 years ago for WoW, then quit WoW in november of last year and came back to GW shortly after), i enjoy this game as a casual. i want something i can log into from time to time and have fun playing, but not something that "sucks you in" and consumes all your time/life. that's exactly what i feel the game is for me right now.

i fully applaud anet's ban on botters. maybe i'll be able to get back into PvP now- i know im not the greatest at it, but the bots just made me not want to even bother with that aspect of the game. i also congratulate anet's ban of PvE farming bots. that sort of thing has been destroying the economy since before i originally left. i'm not saying this will FIX the economy, or that botters will not be back in some form or fashion, but this is definately a positive step.

however.... lets move into the "grey area." as many have already stated, i would LOVE to hear an official "YES or NO" for certain mods. and please dont quote the EULA or any other post in this thread- ive already read it. keep in mind that what you are about to read is my OPINION on each of these. i feel that anet should use (and from my personal experience, IS using) is a common sense approach. AKA "who does this effect?" "what benefits are gained?" "will anyone else's game play be negatively affected?" ...yada yada

1) textmod- a 3rd party program that technically DOES alter the GW client. when i left GW, i had spent a LOT of time on tyrian carto, and i was only 98.6%. using textmod, i went back and finished in just a few hours. also using textmod, cantha and elonia were cake compared to how much time i had invested in tyria. this program should NEVER be considered a bannable offense. in no way does it negatively affect another player. all it saves you is TIME. yes, as many of you will say ...."well i was able to do it without the mod, and so should you!" thats garbage- some people have a higher quality monitor than others, some people have better eyesight that others, and some of those spots are just downright LUCK. i mean, you have to twist, turn, spin, and do the hokey pokey just to clear it out. textmod makes carto EASIER, but does not give you any advantage over another player.

2) multilaunch/GWx2 - 3rd party program that lets you run 2 clients at once. seriously, this mod is for GW what the invention of the wheel was for mankind. not having a mailbox system or any way to trade items or gold between accounts was a HUUUUUGE bummer. i actually bought a cheapo comp JUST for GW years ago so i could trade between accts. this mod should also NOT be bannable. it certainly doesnt hurt anyone else's gameplay, and it saves you tons of time and frustration. i consistently use GWx2 to trade my travelers gifts to my "main" acct and trade items to my storage mule perma pre from my other perma pre. i bet im not the only one who does this.

also, being able to actually PLAY an account while death leveling charr or spending the whole festival event on the nine rings is a bonus. in no way can i fathom how this mod can ever be considered bad.

3) drunkardbot - many of you will disagree with my opinion, but at least hear it out. while those who use drunkardbot cannot argue that it is indeed a BOT, ironically, it is the only 3rd party program i have mentioned that does not change the GW client at all. it simply clicks your mouse at a variable spot a variable number of times at a variable time interval. does it give you an advantage? yes- it saves you TIME. does it hurt other players? absolutely not! i'll freely admit to using it. i manually clicked the first 1000+ minutes before i quit GW years ago, and honestly, its not fun. and its not fun to zone-drink for the title either. oh i also drink while "shopping" in spamadan, but its nice to be able to afk a decent chunk of the title, esp for those of us who dont log on every day. if you consider this bot logically, you can say that it POSITIVELY affects GW's economy. those who use "db" are more likely to buy booze from other players. also, due to the convenience, im sure many players have gone for ale hound on alts, putting even more money into legit trading. also, id like to point out that using "db" is pretty much the same as going afk with a vamp weapon while you pay someone to vanquish areas for you.... you're getting credit towards a title while you do nothing, correct? do we not have a service for this type of vanquishing right here on guru? how can one be ok and the other not?

sooooo.... hopefully i wont get banned for admitting to using these mods, but im sure ive used each of them in the last month or so, and as i stated earlier, none of my accounts are banned. to those who swear that the ONLY way they were banned for use of one of these mods, i have to say that either you're lying, or you should definitely contact support. assuming these mods are safe to use, i would like to say kudos to anet for using common sense. a huge THANK YOU for eliminating those who ruin the game for others, while showing sensibility toward those who simply wish to save time and frustration.

in closing, i would still love to hear an OFFICIAL "yes or no" here. a "yes" would rock my socks and take a load off my mind, and obviously, if the answer is "no", i would happily discontinue using those programs. but until then, i guess i'll just take my chances and stand by what i feel is common sense.

If you actually read the thread, you would have seen the screenshots of the official response.

1 & 2 are O.K. (Caveat: Unaltered) #3 not listed.

In fact, it's copied to the FIRST POST on this page of the thread as well.

myopic · May 27, 2010, 09:20 PM // 21:20

It's great to see Anet doing something about all the botters. I don't really play all that much anymore, so it really didn't effect me, but it's really sad to see all the people seeming to revel in other peoples misfortune, regardless of how deserving. [fyi, I wasn't banned]

Valcion · May 27, 2010, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by myopic

It's great to see Anet doing something about all the botters. I don't really play all that much anymore, so it really didn't effect me, but it's really sad to see all the people seeming to revel in other peoples misfortune, regardless of how deserving. [fyi, I wasn't banned]

to be fair, there really isn't much going on nowadays. At least it'll be entertaining reading the QQ threads

Kumu Honua · May 27, 2010, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by myopic

It's great to see Anet doing something about all the botters. I don't really play all that much anymore, so it really didn't effect me, but it's really sad to see all the people seeming to revel in other peoples misfortune, regardless of how deserving. [fyi, I wasn't banned]

It's called Shadenfreude.

Reverend Dr · May 27, 2010, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Actually I have a legitimate question: If I sign up a smurf guild for an AT with only intention of it forfieting, but this is done such that there can actually be enough guilds to have an AT, is this match manipulation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

I believe that would depend on whether or not you do the "conga line".

Bumping this because I really would like an answer.

The smurf guilds don't ever play they are simply extra guilds that auto forfeit the first round. They are necessary for early morning AT's because without them there won't be enough guilds and the AT just won't take place. This is an incredibly common practice, every early morning AT for over the past two years has had this practice go on.

Perkunas · May 27, 2010, 09:48 PM // 21:48

(How about those permabanned from GW be banned from GWG forums, as their GW input will become outdated and no longer relevant?)

Oops, was thinking out loud again. Sorry.

Anyway, nice move to Anet.

Ninja Ninja · May 27, 2010, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Bumping this because I really would like an answer.

The smurf guilds don't ever play they are simply extra guilds that auto forfeit the first round. They are necessary for early morning AT's because without them there won't be enough guilds and the AT just won't take place. This is an incredibly common practice, every early morning AT for over the past two years has had this practice go on.

Since its manipulating the winner of the match it does count as match manipulation and anet has the full right to ban you. But in a past gvg tournament I remember guilds manipulating matches were only punished by losing there gold cape trims for a period of time.

IrishX · May 27, 2010, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Bumping this because I really would like an answer.

The smurf guilds don't ever play they are simply extra guilds that auto forfeit the first round. They are necessary for early morning AT's because without them there won't be enough guilds and the AT just won't take place. This is an incredibly common practice, every early morning AT for over the past two years has had this practice go on.

I don't think Anet would do anything about that because there is no true way to prove that the guild had the intention of forfeiting. Everyone knows it happens, but can't actually prove that the team just couldn't get eight.

Also, I'm sure they believe playing>not playing, so there is little, if any, incentive to stop this practice. Technically, I suppose it is ladder manipulation, but the ladder hasn't mattered since the GWFC.

Ninja Ninja · May 27, 2010, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perkunas

(How about those permabanned from GW be banned from GWG forums, as their GW input will become outdated and no longer relevant?)

Oops, was thinking out loud again. Sorry.

Anyway, nice move to Anet.

I somewhat agree, these threads are alright for now because this is new but there will come a time when we will need to move on. If you don't own a gw account any more then you don't really belong on a gw fansite especially looking for sympathy after guru made a 40 page petition asking for this to happen.

revelation · May 27, 2010, 10:01 PM // 22:01

I don't understand people who have sympathy for botters. They say they were a big part of this community, they invested a lot of time in their accounts and stuff like that. So what? Anyone can be "leet" with bot farming for them 24/7 and having unlimited cash in their storage.

Why should anyone farm, trade or play to earn cash in a fair way when others get it without a sweat.. I mean.. should this game be full of botters, and everyone that actually plays the game would be stupid for doing so? That wouldn't be enjoyable experience for me..

As a veteran player with 5 years under my belt, GWAMM and lots of PvP experience, when GW gets boring, I just stop playing it, and focus more on my life or sometimes I pick up another game and have fun with that.. I come back in few months, or half a year if I see new content or I want to replay something again and have fun again. Nobody is forcing anyone to play the game so you have to bot. You guys should be thankful for thousands of hours of fun that this game gave you, there are only few games ever made that can make that possible. If you don't do anything in your life except play GW so you have to bot to be super-successful, thank ArenaNet for banning your account and giving your life back to you.

jonnieboi05 · May 27, 2010, 10:16 PM // 22:16

I'm bumping this post. I am curious on what Arena.Net's answer is for this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by me

As per this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Texmod won't get you banned. That is a client side only mod, and doesn't have ANYTHING to do with packet manipulation. So, if you are claiming you were banned for using Texmod... I call shenanigans

Also, Dhuum slaying the corrupt was by far the best thing ANET has ever done, period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

Speaking of packet manipulation... Do you remember the links with the person spamming rank, zrank and aion wings? Do you possibly think such a mod (with it having zero "benefit" to the user) would be a bannable offense in your opinion even though it is packet manipulation?

Does Arena.Net have any response to this particular mod? It's .dll injecting just like KSMod but deals with packets to produce a client side-only /rank /zrank /aion.

When I saw the youtube link I've always wondered if that was considered bannable or not since it's not giving any form of unfair advantage and is purely cosmetic.

edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vamp08

Uh-oh, has KSMod and its UT99 sound injector betrayed me?

Do the UT99 sounds deal with packet manipulation? My first guess would be "yes" since it has to detect deaths but don't quote me on that since I am not entirely sure. I AM, however, curious what aNet's stand is against packet manipulation (like in the example on the top half of my post).

Hmm...

snaek · May 27, 2010, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by revelation

I don't understand people who have sympathy for botters. They say they were a big part of this community, they invested a lot of time in their accounts and stuff like that. So what? Anyone can be "leet" with bot farming for them 24/7 and having unlimited cash in their storage.

not everyone who was banned botted to this degree, yet everyone received the same punishment. someone who only experimented and tried out a bot once or twice perhaps not even earning more than 1k received the same punishment as someone who has botted "24/7 and having unlimited cash in their storage".

i don't think curiosity deserves a permaban.

furthermore, there have been many accounts that have used other cheats/exploits that have similar damage (pve-wise) that have gone unbanned. so the banning process has been very selective (almost random).

amber dawn · May 27, 2010, 11:29 PM // 23:29

First off, Thanks ANET

Second, 34 pages, I'm not going to say I read them all because I didn't.
What I did find interesting is there are people that seem to think that transferring
items from a their bot account to their main account, should keep their main since it
didn't bot. Thankfully Anet threw the flag on that one.
Also I don't get the people that seem to think because they botted and got all their wealth/accomplishments, that it was actually them working to get it.
It's called a program honey, you install, go afk, come back and you get something for nothing.
But look at the bright side, at least you did get something, and so did we.

It's funny to read about how so many great people lost their accounts.
Great people or great programs, its unfortunate their are those that can't tell the difference. It is odd to me, if those people are as great as we are to believe, they would never have had to bot.

TheHaxor · May 27, 2010, 11:34 PM // 23:34

grand publicity stunt is... grand publicity stunt

frankly, cheating in this game is so widespread that dart board bans are futile. fixing the holes that exist would be more reassuring.

snaek · May 27, 2010, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber dawn

Also I don't get the people that seem to think because they botted and got all their wealth/accomplishments, that it was actually them working to get it.

i'm sure the most common bot usage was farming for money. i'm also sure that a lot of people who have used farming bots have actually gained a lot of titles by themselves without the use of bots.

furthermore, you'd be surprised at the amount of accounts with titles earned through botting (most commonly drunkard and lux/kurz) that have not been banned.

i believe the focus of anet was not the damage botting has done to titles, rather the damage botting has done to the economy.

Black Metal · May 27, 2010, 11:44 PM // 23:44

I can't possibly make it through this entire thread to find the answer to this question, so hopefully someone kind enough will give me a quick answer:

My assumption is that most of the bans were bots reported by pvpers. It is well-known that some bots farm dungeons and WiK escort missions. Have people botting in pve where noone is around in the zone to notice and report them getting the bans too?

If so it would seem Anet can catch people using some sort of detection mechanism. If not it would seem they are relying on in-game observation and from /reports.

snaek · May 27, 2010, 11:48 PM // 23:48

^read the link on the piece written by james phinney. they have "detection" methods that they don't want to reveal anything about. they have also increased the amount of support staff dealing with botting.

amber dawn · May 27, 2010, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

i'm sure the most common bot usage was farming for money. i'm also sure that a lot of people who have used farming bots have actually gained a lot of titles by themselves without the use of bots.

furthermore, you'd be surprised at the amount of accounts with titles earned through botting (most commonly drunkard and lux/kurz) that have not been banned.

i believe the focus of anet was not the damage botting has done to titles, rather the damage botting has done to the economy.

I stand corrected, I should have put (some) of their wealth/accomplishments) instead of all. I do believe a lot of people still got away with more than we know.
I do feel bad for those that got caught in the crossfire. And hope they get their accounts back very soon.
Those that are guilty, I am glad are gone.